Episode 86: Digital Marketing for Forensic Accountants with Tatiana Spears
In this season of the Data Sleuth Podcast, join Leah Wietholter as she discusses the business of forensic accounting with successful professionals who have done just that! As part of this series, Workman Forensics and podcast guests are providing free resources and tools to accompany each episode to help you with your practice whether you’re just starting out or wanting to take it to the next level. Make sure to listen to the end of the episode to find out how to download! Lastly, during the last episode of the season, we are going to answer all of your questions - so if you have any questions about the business of forensic accounting, send them to Leah via YouTube, LinkedIn, or by emailing us at podcast@workmanforensics.com.
Today’s episode with Tatiana Spears is all about things for a forensic accounting professional to consider in the ecosystem that is digital marketing. In this episode, Tatiana and Leah discuss:
Start creating content even if it’s messy
Areas to find inspiration for content
How an online course fits into a digital marketing strategy
Is email marketing dead?
Tatiana Spears is Vice President of Marketing & Communications at CareATC, a leading employer-sponsored healthcare provider. With over a decade of marketing and communications experience, Tatiana has collaborated and led teams in various sectors including healthcare, banking and information technology. Most notably, Tatiana has contributed to the launch of the first U.S. crypto banking app with Vast Bank; the first FDA-approved mobile balance testing app with Sway Medical; and successfully raised $2 million dollars for a non-profit capital campaign. She has also worked on projects for top brands including Nintendo, Whole Foods, General Electric, SAP and Coinbase. Tatiana is originally from Los Angeles, California and currently lives in Syracuse, New York with her husband and two children. She loves to bake, hike, spend time with friends and family, and whisper sweet nothings to her overworked Nespresso machine.
LinkedIn: Tatiana Spears
Twitter: @tatiaspears
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY’S EPISODE
To access the downloads discussed in this episode, visit: datasleuthpodcast.com
Content Confident Course: The way you promote your business online can make all the difference. Let me teach you how to create content with ease and confidence.
To learn more about the Investigation Game Education Edition, visit: workmanforensics.com/tig-educators
Order your copy of Leah’s book, Data Sleuth: Using Data in Forensic Accounting and Fraud Investigations today on Amazon!
CONNECT WITH WORKMAN FORENSICS
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Transcript
Leah Wietholter:
Hi, I'm Leah Wietholter, your CEO and founder of Workman Forensics in Tulsa Oklahoma. And this is the Data Sleuth Podcast. In this season of the Data Sleuth Podcast, I'm discussing the business of forensic accounting with successful professionals who have done just that or they serve those who do. As part of this series, Workman Forensics and our guests are providing free resources and tools to accompany each episode's topic to help you with your practice, whether you're just starting out or wanting to take it to the next level. Make sure to listen to the end to find out how to download each one of these. For the last episode of the year, Tracy Conan and I are going to team up to answer all of your questions. So if you have any questions about the business of forensic accounting or even forensic accounting in general, send them in via YouTube, LinkedIn, or by emailing us at podcast at workmanforensics.com. In today's episode of the Data Sleuth Podcast, Tatiana Spears and I talk about things that a forensic accountant should consider when creating content for digital marketing.
In this episode, she and I discuss starting creating content, even if it's messy, areas to find inspiration for that content. We discuss how an online course, and this trend of courses, fits into a digital marketing strategy. And then I also ask her, "Is email marketing dead?" Tatiana Spears is Vice President of marketing and communications at Care ATC, a leading employer sponsored healthcare provider. With over a decade of marketing and communications experience, Tatiana has collaborated and led teams in various sectors including healthcare, banking, and information technology. Most notably, Tatiana has contributed to the launch of the first US crypto banking app with Vast Bank, the first FDA approved mobile balance testing app with Sway Medical, and successfully raised $2 million for a non-profit capital campaign. She has also worked on projects for top brands, including Nintendo, Whole Foods, General Electric, SAP, and Coinbase. Tatiana is originally from Los Angeles, California, and currently lives in Syracuse, New York with her husband and two children. She loves to bake, hike, spend time with friends and family and whisper sweet nothings to her overworked Nespresso machine. Tatiana, thank you so much for joining me today.
Tatiana Spears:
Absolutely. Yeah, it's so exciting to be here with you today.
Leah Wietholter:
This is so wild. So whenever you were graduating from grad school, right?
Tatiana Spears:
That's right.
Leah Wietholter:
You actually helped me. You worked as my assistant.
Tatiana Spears:
I sure did. It was my first big girl job. It was like, I felt so fancy. It was fantastic. You gave me a shot and it was just really fun just getting to learn under you and it was just fantastic. So yeah, it's been a wild ride over the last, I don't know, what's it been? Almost over 10 years now, which is amazing.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. That is crazy. I know. So I actually don't remember if this episode is before Steven's or after Steven's, but anyway, I gave you a shout-out in the episode with Steven Raiden for creating the phrase the modern day Sherlock Holmes. And yeah, you created that.
Tatiana Spears:
I love it. And it was so fun to do it. I know you and I have bonded over many a book and references and things like that, but that's who you are to me, you're the modern day Sherlock Holmes, doing it in heels.
Leah Wietholter:
That's right. And I don't know if I've ever told you, but I actually was questioned in a deposition about that phrase.
Tatiana Spears:
Wow.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, I think the guy was, not to repeat too much from Stevens episode, but I think the attorney was a hardcore Sherlock Holmes fan, and so he was very offended that I was a modern day Sherlock Holmes.
Tatiana Spears:
Oh man, that's hilarious.
Leah Wietholter:
But anyway. It was great. But I gave you credit in that deposition too. I said, I'm sorry, a marketing professional said I should call it this. So that's what we're doing.
Tatiana Spears:
That makes my heart so happy.
Leah Wietholter:
I know. It's so great. So great. Okay, so we could reminisce all day, but we are here to talk about digital marketing, and whenever I think of you, I think of, yes, digital marketing, but also, to me, digital marketing kind of have two components. You can have the analytics piece and then you can also have the content. And so when... I mean you can do any and all of that, but you have helped me specifically with the communication through digital marketing and finding those great words to communicate what we're trying to say in our messaging. So how have you turned this expertise into a business?
Tatiana Spears:
Yeah, great question. I think for me, and going back to digital marketing, what I love so much about it, it's very much art and science. I get to look at the analytics, dig into seeing what's working, what's not, and make some educated decisions about what to do next. But the creative side of things, the arts side of things, it's just so much fun to put together. My bread and butter is definitely copywriting. That's where I got the marketing bug, which when I started off, just in different professional pursuits, I just always gravitated to writing and the copywriting aspect of things and working with designers, working with other professionals, and just seeing the end product of how those two elements come together, was just fantastic to see. And so while I've always been in the corporate world, I've always, here and there, would have conversations and I would just get so fired up with different small business owners, especially service-based business owners.
And it would be so much fun just to hear what they're saying, hear their pain points, what they're needing and how they're trying to communicate their message. And here I am in the corporate world and pairing it with my education and just saying, a lot of these principles don't just have to apply to big businesses. This can apply to small businesses as well. So that's where my own small business was birthed as well, as just consulting and also serving as a small-scale agency for different professional service providers. And so that's how it blossomed, and I still do that today. And so it's been fantastic just to see, and so gratifying to see how to help people connect authentically, just encourage them that you can do this. You don't have to be this professional actor or this professional writer, this type of things. But also just getting your message crystal clear and letting a team help you just bring it into fruition.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah. So you have personally helped me on this, not as my assistant. I mean you did, although you did it then too. You wrote a bunch of stuff for me back then. But even more recently. If any of our listeners received any of the emails about the Data Sleuth book when it was launching or saw any of our LinkedIn posts or anything like that about the Data Sleuth book, that was your handiwork. You were part of that creative process. And we've got another campaign that you prepped for us that we still have not launched, but it's coming. It's coming.
Tatiana Spears:
Awesome. Awesome.
Leah Wietholter:
I'm very excited. Very excited. So what do you think, these days, the current purpose of digital marketing is for consultants or forensic accountants, or like you were mentioning, service-based businesses, in 2024?
Tatiana Spears:
Yeah, I think it's been so fun to see the evolution of digital marketing in general. And I think when some people think of digital marketing, sometimes there could be this thought that it just means social media or it just means one component, but really digital marketing is a whole ecosystem. And in the center of that ecosystem is your website. And after the website, then you have your social channels, you have email marketing, you have search engine optimization, search engine marketing. There's a whole science and ecosystem behind this. So there's definitely all these different components, but how you use them really determines success or if something falls flat.
And so I think what the purpose of digital marketing in 2024 is to connect authentically, connect efficiently, and connect effectively. Those are the three things that I see that coming along. And that's why metrics are so important. That's why a plan is so important. And so I see all those components coming together. I always joke around whenever, whether it be in the corporate world or I'm consulting with clients one-on-one, sometimes I joke around that a lot of people expect digital marketers to be like JLo. They need to sing, they need to dance, they need to act. You got to do all the things. But the truth of the matter is the most essential part of everything, apart from writing the copy, making the artwork, publishing, analytics, all these different things that there's an expectation for, at the very base of it should be just a clear message and a clear...
And that's where it all comes back down to is what are you saying? How are you saying it? And who are you trying to talk to? I think that's the... You're talking about Steven Raiden, in our MBA program, I'll never forget, a professor would say, "If you're trying to talk to everyone, you're going to be talking to no one." You've got to be so clear about who you're talking to. And that's why those tools should help amplify the message you're trying to say and connect to, for a specific audience, not just everyone and anyone.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah. That is such a great point. Whenever we were trying to... So for us at Workmen Forensics, we in 2019 a very conscious effort. I even had an entire creative team on staff. We made a conscious effort to expand outside of Oklahoma, and we wanted to see what would work best. Now at the time in 2019, it was pretty much Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. I think TikTok... Yeah, TikTok was a little later that year, I think that it really hit its stride. But we were trying to figure out, and then also the podcast and YouTube, and where do you focus? And I feel like that is in line with what you were talking about too. Not only who is your audience, but then where is your audience. And so I'm curious, how do you recommend that service-based businesses or forensic accountants approach these different platforms? How do they decide?
Tatiana Spears:
Yeah, excellent question. I think for me, where it all starts is really identifying. So we talked about identifying who you're talking to. So me talking to... And I like alliteration whenever I talk about personas. So in a forensic accountant shoes, maybe you're trying to talk to Legal Larry. Legal Larry, he's a lawyer, he's in this firm. This is where, but he's needing assistance with getting insight in terms of, for a financial case. He might be mainly on LinkedIn. He's in there, he's a part of these different groups. That's where he's living and breathing. Legal Larry might not be on TikTok, and that's okay. So knowing where he's at is where you need to start. Or maybe if you take on personal clients, maybe it's Divorcee Diana, and she needs to... She's over on Instagram, maybe on Facebook. Figuring out where they live, where they are at and who you're talking to.
And again, it doesn't mean you're limited to just one person, but it just definitely helps to hone in on the channel, because while all social media, the intent is to connect personally, they all do it in different ways. And I think from there also matching your message to that specific channel is so important as well. And I always tell clients, it's okay if you're not on every channel. You don't have to be. I'd rather you start somewhere small and get better before you get bigger. And so that also starts just starting off embarrassingly small. I know sometimes it can be overwhelming like, "Oh my God, do I have to post every day and do this video and do that post and write this thing and do this?" If you're just starting off, pick one channel and start off with just saying, "My intention for this first quarter is to post two times a week." And start there.
And as you test things out, if you lean more towards a writer, let's say it's just you in your own specific service or firm or even just your own personal brand. If you're more of a writer, that's okay. Guess what? Maybe you do a LinkedIn post where it's maybe max 150 words and it's about a specific topic. But in those 150 words, guess what? You could probably repurpose 25 of them for a micro post somewhere else. So I'm always a big proponent of getting more mileage out of your content the more that you can. So having just one long form piece of content can translate into maybe 10 to 15 micro pieces of content. That same post could be a 30-second video that highlights maybe two or three points from that post, and that's your 15-second video, that's your 30-second video that you're posting on Instagram Reels.
So I think that's why it's so important to come back to the content plan and the content calendar. And then from there, you're able to extract all these different pieces from one piece of work. And so for me, I definitely enjoy podcasting. I enjoy being on video sometimes. And so if you're more of a natural speaker, maybe writing isn't your thing. What I love about this day and age is there are so many different tools where I can plop in a video on a platform. I can get a transcript in literally 30 seconds, and guess what? I can probably get five posts out of that. And that's just from one maybe 10 minute video that I'm talking about a specific topic or answering a frequently asked question. There's so many different tools out there today, now more than ever, where you can, as a solopreneur, be able to just promote your own personal brand or business. Or even if you're part of a firm, just being able to even more promote your brand and what you do with these pieces of content.
Leah Wietholter:
I love that. In prepping for this discussion, I completely forgot about the repurposing aspect. That's so good. That is one of my favorite things to anchor, have something that anchors it. So I usually speak a lot. It could be that speaking. What am I talking about that year? And then that's the anchor, or the podcast makes a really great anchor. So then you can just take each of these, once you have that podcast planned that's basically planned your social media for the year and you just are, like you said, repurposing that content over and over.
Tatiana Spears:
Yeah, absolutely. There's a common question too where it's like, "Well, if I'm repurposing the same content, am I being repetitive?" The thing is, you got to look at, especially with social media, you got to look at it more as a moving river. It's never the same thing you're stepping into twice. So it's okay to drip different things at different times. And again, that's why a calendar helps, so you can mix it really, really well. So just think of it as a river. It's not just this stagnant, set in stone place, it's just constantly moving. It's recognizing where it lives in the feed as well. And being able to attract other and new users and visitors and be able to interact with your content. So I think if you think of it that way, you begin to think like, Ooh yeah, it's not just the same thing over and over. It's different aspects of probably the same topic, but in this river of constant motion, I'm being constantly introduced to different and new people."
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, that's a great point. I have told Mike, when I had a creative staff, I would tell them over and over, I understand that you're an artist, but this is going to live for maybe a minute, if we're lucky, on social media. And so while it feels repetitive to me, "Oh my gosh, have we not talked about how to digitize bank statements enough?" A totally different group could be seeing each post. And so it doesn't seem... I mean we still want to spread it out just for our own interest, but a different audience might be seeing it. And to me, tell me, I have noticed that consistency is really the key.
Tatiana Spears:
A hundred percent.
Leah Wietholter:
So it's not about the flash, it's not about how long the post is. It's not about if it's a video. I do think people like faces, so I try to incorporate faces as much as possible, but it's just about being consistent and choosing a platform or a couple of platforms. Yeah.
Tatiana Spears:
Absolutely. Consistency is key. I think sometimes, and I'm guilty of this too, I harp on like, "Oh, did that sound right? Is this graphic what it should be?" Just harping on those elements. But the truth is, it's like you got to start somewhere, and you get better over time and over repetition. You'll begin to find your voice, you'll begin to find the look and feel that you're looking for, but you got to show up consistently. And again, that's why the meat of the content is so much more important than necessarily how it looks. You definitely, you don't want to seal the sizzle without the steak, but the steak is important. So you got to be able to be very clear about what value you're offering. And just talking about, you're talking about faces as well. What I always encourage clients to, especially if they're basically the face of their brand or their service, that it is important to really talk about things that personally resonate with you or your interests.
I always say your interests make you interesting. It's okay to dabble in and include within your own content plan things that do entertain or are funny, or things that bring you joy, because that's the connection point as well. And I think the secret sauce for a lot of different solopreneurs is that you have the opportunity to personally connect where a big brand can't really do that with people. And so it's really important to do that. So being able to just show up and show up the way that is authentic to you. It does not have to always be scripted or always look super polished. Just you showing up authentically, and showing your heart behind what you want to do in the problem you're trying to solve. The audience really resonates with that, and you can really connect in that way.
Leah Wietholter:
I agree. I have noticed that because we've been consistent, and we don't even post all year long. We take several breaks throughout the year, but we've just been very consistent. Then whenever I do go to post something that's a little more personal, and I'll give a little story, it will have, what I'm talking about will have already passed. So if you're wanting to join this, it's already over. But I just thought, gosh, I have all of these people who listen to the podcast, other professionals, and I had been curious about different methods to trace money. That every time I go to trace money, I just look at what's the most reasonable, what's the most conservative, and then I choose it, and then I'll go argue my position on why I chose that method. And I thought, I wonder how many methods there are out there, have people made up their own?
There's not really a book published on this. So I just wanted to learn more. So I went and I created a little Canva post, which is just DIY graphic design. And so I go into Canva and make it our colors, and I just said, "How do you trace money?" And then in the text I said, this is what I'm wanting to know. Does anybody want to get around a Zoom call and talk about this? So that post had 40 comments, which in the professional world, 40 comments is so many, and it's so many because I responded to each of them, which is key. And so we responded to each of them. And that post the last time I checked a few days ago had over 3,800 views. And in a professional space, that is crazy to me.
Tatiana Spears:
That is crazy. Yeah. I's amazing.
Leah Wietholter:
And I really feel like just that consistency of this is the type of content that we always provide. This is the focus for us, because we focus on other professionals, we talk to other professionals, that's our audience. And just being able to see that win was really awesome. And like I said, we've been taking a little hiatus from posting, and so the fact that it would grow to that, and that so many people were interested, and then we have a really great attendance for this discussion. The discussion had to... I was thinking small group. And so now it's something a little bit more formal. Which again, it's just, like you were saying, that individual connection. And this is just... I remember when my team told me, just have a conversation with somebody. I was like, "What do I even write?"
Tatiana Spears:
Right. No, it's so true. And that's why those post journals are so important. And they could be based off of real people you've interacted with. I know for me, sometimes I will think of someone, very specific business owner, and I think of the questions she's asked me, I think of what her interests are, her personal life, that kind of thing. What's she reading? What's she loving? It's important to know the person you're connecting with, not just the decision maker or this email address or that... It's a person behind all of that. And connecting with them authentically is just so important. But I love that for you, and this is why it's so important too. I think there's obviously the saying, think outside the box, but sometimes the box, the parameters help you actually be more creative.
So even if you do have a content calendar, even if you have a posting schedule, you still need to make room for those impromptu thoughts and things and give yourself some white space to wonder and think about. And then again, like you said, popping on Canva and being like, just create something and just put it out there, and you never know who it might resonate with. And the fact that that gained so much traction, it's so important to still, again, make space for that wonder and creativity and asking questions. And that's why I think too, sometimes a lot of professionals treat social media as just free advertising, but it's supposed to be really able to give you the opportunity to have conversations and connect. The fact that you responded to every comment is so key. It's supposed to be about connecting.
Leah Wietholter:
Right. Exactly. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit more about content, but let's take a quick break.
Speaker 3:
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Leah Wietholter:
Welcome back to my conversation with Tatiana. So I want to talk about content, and I want to be careful how... I hadn't actually thought about this till this moment, so I want to be careful how I say this. So when I didn't know what to write about, I actually started with the things that annoyed me, and then I would flip them to make them positive. So one of the things that is very... And this is when we were... Well, we have a couple different audiences because we have several different products. But whenever I was thinking about targeting clients, because that's probably if somebody's starting their own forensic accounting practice, they're like, "Yeah, Leah, this is all well and good, but how do I get clients?" Okay.
So whenever we were looking at how do we market and use digital marketing for clients, I didn't necessarily know all their problems, although we could sit down and we could say, "What are all the," but it was easier to start this process by thinking about what are the things that the clients do that make it difficult for us to help them, and then spin it to make it positive. So an example is when people would bring us boxes of paper bank statements, and then we need to process them. That makes it three to four times as expensive because I've got to scan them, I've got to do all this stuff. So we did content around, and we started creating client packets and things like that where we tell them, in order for us to help you and to help you stay on budget, this is what you do. And I think we might have even created videos about... No, no, no. We created a bad, good, and best examples-
Tatiana Spears:
Love it.
Leah Wietholter:
... that we provide to the clients. We can process this in no time. This is going to take us four times as long. And so showing how people, they'll send us statements with markings on it and highlights and all this stuff. So that's just an example. We just took the things, what are the things that are constantly making us go, "Oh my gosh," and then we can just communicate to the clients, because it will create a better experience for everyone. But we made it positive. We did not make it instructional. It was really... We tried to make it all... That's what I'm saying about being careful how I say this because I think sometimes it can come across as a critique. I don't want to critique my clients, but I want to empower them to help themselves through this process.
Tatiana Spears:
Absolutely. And that's a great starting point, helping to make the right thing easy. You help to lay out the groundwork of what's needed, and gave them the tools to be able to make that happen. And that benefited you and benefited them. That was that win-win. But I love that, that you thought of like, "All right, I'm going to think of all the things that annoy me or that are time-consuming or expensive," but chances are, being able to now create a solution for them, again, was a win for them and a win for you. And that's fantastic. That's where you can definitely start. I always recommend, and you can have as many buckets as you want, but again, I think inside the box makes you more creative. So what I like to do is basically say, "Hey, create just five content buckets." These just could be different themes, these could be different categories.
And so what I like to do with those five buckets, you can do bucket one could be like educate. Bucket two is build community. Bucket three is promote. Bucket four is entertain. Bucket five is personalized. And you have these buckets, and then you begin writing ideas. This could be done on an Asana board or whatever task management system. You can create boards with these buckets, and just off the fly, and this is where I try to also encourage clients, and especially in the writing process. Just already commit that the first draft is going to not be great. It's okay, just give yourself that permission to be messy. It's like getting a toddler with finger paint. Let it get messy. Let it be out there. We'll make sense of it later, but just do a brained up of, even if it's starting, "What are the most frequently asked questions when I work with a client?"
All right, I'm listing out all those questions. All right, maybe that provided 10 to 12 questions. Could you create 10 to 12 pieces of content surrounding each of those frequently asked questions? Starting there, and it's so amazing to see how those ideas breed other ideas as well. And again, that's where too you can then think of, "All right, well, can I create a long form piece of content surrounding these frequently asked questions? All right. Make that as a blog post and attract people to my website." That's where it gets started. You got to give yourself permission to be messy. Find a place, whether it be a notebook, whether it be a digital board or something like that to capture all of these. And then from there, make it actionable by saying, "All right, Q1, I'm going to focus on this specific theme for this month, and I'm going to drag over these questions for each specific week."
And it just makes it practical. So you just got to start somewhere, get all those elements out on the table, and then from there, apply it to a calendar or theme. And just start somewhere. And start with the things that are most interesting for you. Because if you're not interested in it, it's going to fall flat and people can tell. That's why authenticity is just so important. That's not to say... Definitely show up with discipline. There might be some things that, I know this is a frequently asked question, it's not the most exciting, but it's still pertinent to the person. Just think of the person you're trying to help. That will bring that excitement to light.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, there are so few posts that have had the response, like my tracing posts. Okay? I'll just be honest. But our content has become a database for people. And so it's become a database for the clients that we actually work their cases. It's become a database for other professionals that might want to buy the book. It's become a database for teachers who then we sell our games to, or even companies who want to use our games as part of their team building. And so that's how I like to think of content, not what is it going to... Especially in this space, it's so technical. Social media, the consistency so that you can have conversations, so that when you do post content, people are seeing it, obviously. But then to me, I'm really playing the long game. Someone's going to find our YouTube video on this. And something that was really helpful for me because when they said, "Let's create a podcast about this," I thought, "What is there to talk about in this space?" And now we're on season five. Hey.
Tatiana Spears:
That's amazing. That is amazing.
Leah Wietholter:
But one of the things that was really helpful was I had Alicia on my team at the time, and she would be editing the podcast, and she would start writing down things that she didn't know what I was talking about. So she would identify like, "Oh, you keep talking about these bookkeepers stealing money. How do you know if you have a bad bookkeeper?" So then that started a whole other content generation. "Oh, we'll do a mini-sode, we'll write an article. We'll do these things." So I think it's helpful if you've got someone on your team that maybe doesn't do this work, maybe your assistant doesn't do this work all the time. Have them listen and then ask questions.
Tatiana Spears:
Yes, absolutely. I think that's the thing that we could Google all day long, but you got to talk to a real person at the end of the day. And sometimes it could be a member of your team or someone else who doesn't have the depth of knowledge that you have, but maybe it's so foreign to them. How would you explain it to the layperson? How would you explain it to someone who's just not in it every day? And I think that's why sometimes some key topics or interesting ideas get passed by because it's just normal to us. We are always in it. It's like we know it, but not everyone does.
And so even if it's like maybe you had a really happy client, could you take them out to lunch or coffee and just say, "Hey, I'm thinking about really showing up on LinkedIn or showing up here. What were some questions that you had? How did you end up selecting my services? Or why did you think it was really helpful?" You'll begin to find some keywords and some key things that will also give you ideas. So that helps to also generate some energy too, again, when you have a person sitting across from you. So don't just Google, definitely connect, find a person, be able to have that conversation, and it will lead to some amazing ideas.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, I love that. There's so much, if you're just listening with that intent and with that intention of "I want to get to know this person. I'm not trying to just use this person." But even if there was someone I was wanting to do work with, I'd ask them to go to lunch, but I didn't even talk about my services or what I was selling unless I was asked. I asked them about their business, but then based on what they would tell me, or they tell me about their work with other experts, then again, I can create content, but also I can use that language that they might be Googling, that they might be looking for on YouTube.
Tatiana Spears:
A hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a gold mine.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, just storing it all. It's helpful. One of my strings on Strings Finder is input. So whenever I'm doing these things, I'm just inputting. Okay, so I know that you have a digital course. And so before we wrap up, because good gosh, we could just keep talking about this. I love it so much.
Tatiana Spears:
I know. I love talking to you.
Leah Wietholter:
Okay, so what is a way... So I'd like to talk about these courses and how is that fitting into the world of marketing, but then even helping service-based businesses grow?
Tatiana Spears:
Yes. Oh my gosh, I was so excited for this question. It involves where the trend is going right now with audiences. So for the longest time, we always thought, "Oh, we can get by with just showing up on social. That's where our people are. We're good." But the fact of the matter is social media channels and different platforms, those are borrowed spaces. Those are borrowed audiences. If a social media platform goes down or if it's bought or if it becomes obsolete. If your audience goes away tomorrow, what's going to happen to you being able to connect with them directly? And so this is where... And we talked about digital marketing being an ecosystem. So at the center of that ecosystem, certainly your website and even at the dead center of it is email marketing. You need to be able to convert the majority of your followers, or at least the people who come to be able to build an email list.
And that is an audience you own. So no matter if Instagram goes away, if there's some legislative thing that happens here or there, or there's the next iteration of a social media platform, then decreases your viewership significantly, whatever might happen, you own that email list. And so you are now able to directly talk to audiences who know, like and trust you, are interested in your services. And so going back to the courses bit, so this is where you're providing value. So you're building your email list, what I see the trend going, you still show up on social media. That's definitely a high level top of funnel area to capture people. And as you keep going down the funnel, and really at the bottom of the funnel, now when people have subscribed to your email list, that means they're interested in learning more about you, what you offer, your services.
So apart from your free stuff, whether it be like blog posts or YouTube videos or podcasts, courses now make things much more actionable, concise. I think sometimes a lot of professionals think like, "Well, someone could just Google this. Why should I make a course about it?" The fact of the matter is, what makes it different is you, your experiences. You're bringing a different voice to maybe a topic that, yeah, it's out there, but who wants to waste their time, again, kind of Googling hours and hours or piece-mealing certain things here and there when they can come to a professional who has a concise place and product that could be able to give me the answers I need? And so when it comes to a course, again, that's a really helpful way for you to be able to have a concentrated product that gives the person the ability to have a very complete answer to something, or at least a good foundation or starting point to something.
And so when that happens, you're able to know, again, create even more value. And there's a saying, I don't know where I got it from, but I always remind myself, especially when I'm creating, especially a digital product, and I am slapping a sticker on it, because I know worked hard to put that together, but there's a saying where it says, "Those who pay, pay attention." So if you have someone who buys your course, and again, they're interested, they've seen value in this, that then becomes, over your customer lifetime, someone who is very much interested in what you have to offer and say. So it becomes a really good entry point. So I think if you think of it as a funnel, certainly courses are offered more at the bottom of the funnel where someone's really actionable, they have interest, they need that. I think courses are an incredibly important part in building trust and helping to be able to demonstrate your knowledge about something.
And again, courses don't have to be this 10 part huge course. It could be a workshop where maybe it's an hour and a half broken up into three or four different modules about a certain thing relating to your service. And then at the end of that course, if you want one-on-one, or you want to work with me one-on-one, here's your next step. Right? Now, you can engage that relationship on that point, and/or lead them into maybe a paid community. That's another trend that I don't see going away, where again, you own that space. So while you have courses, now, what if you built a paid community? It doesn't to be crazy expensive, but you have people there and other experts and/or other people that would find your services really helpful in a community where maybe every month you provide tailored content for that audience. So I just see that trend coming where it's like, "I don't want to just live in this borrowed space. What are my spaces that I can put together that creates value for these prospective clients, current clients, and/or future clients?"
Leah Wietholter:
I love that. I have never thought of us using borrowed space, but you're absolutely right. And that's definitely a risk to consider when we're putting out all this "free" content. But you're right, we don't own anything. And so I'm guessing that you would agree, I know Donald Miller says this a lot, but I guess you would agree that email marketing is not going away.
Tatiana Spears:
It's not going away. As much as a lot of people are like, "Oh, it's so 1990." No, it's not going away. Again, it's like that concept of, sure, you might have a lot of followers on a specific channel, but how many are those... Sometimes you don't need thousands of followers. You just need probably a good email list of a hundred people who are super interested in what you have to say and are really committed to engaging in your services at some point or wanting to continue that relationship. You just need a dedicated following.
It doesn't have to have a ton of numbers, but that you provide a ton of value to. That's where it lies. That's where you'll find more success and connection. So if I did a social media post about a product or service that I'm offering just out there on a social media, any social media platform, it's not going to get the same interest or interaction as it would if I just sent it to my hundred email subscribers, or whatever your list amount might be. So just think of quality, not quantity, and email marketing is not going away as much as people want to say that, but it's not. Yeah.
Leah Wietholter:
I know. I signed up the other day, found a girl on YouTube that does a lot of Excel. She's an Excel pro, and I was like, "I do want your tips in my email. I may not read it all, but I just wanted, what tip are you sending me this week? And if I'm interested, I'm going to open it."
Tatiana Spears:
Exactly. Exactly.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, totally. So what I did find interesting about what you were saying is that... Because I've looked at these courses and it looks like some people end up making the course their thing, their business, but how you described it was to drive even more traffic to the core business area. Have you noticed those two uses with the courses?
Tatiana Spears:
I do. Yeah. You can definitely create different courses for different intents. So sometimes a course can certainly be more of an introduction or again, demonstrating your depth of knowledge of something. And that could then lead to a one-on-one client relationship. It could just be something more generalized. Let's say your calendar is pretty full, but you have something really important to share, and you still want to help people out there that may not fit your ideal client framework, and that's okay, but they still find value from what you have to say. So that even solving a problem where maybe I can't do a one-on-one for everyone, but maybe you could do a one-to-many.
So you can still, again, with the intent of helping others, provide this course that really provides an overview of what to do, what's the next step? What do you look for in a specific, just different professionals. So giving them the tools they need to just take that next step. So it could be the intent of just being like, "Hey, I don't got time. My calendar is full," and that's okay. It's the one-to-many, you're educating them and providing them value. And then again, the other is just, again, the course being a part of a funnel that then leads to maybe a higher ticket, one-on-one client relationship or service or that kind of thing.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, I love it. Okay, so since we're talking about courses, you have to tell us about yours.
Tatiana Spears:
Yes. Oh my gosh. So this has been my baby for a while, and again, I've definitely have been working on this really, really hard. And so I am actually launching my own course called Content Confident, and it's coming out actually March 15th. And so I will be, again, same thing here where I am just really distilling all of this knowledge, some of these nuggets that I've shared with you today into a framework to be able to help service-based professionals really market themselves and their business. And so it leads you through this whole process. It gives you the tools and resources you need, editable calendars, editable content calendars as well, to be able to just start somewhere, get going, finally make the push and get out there to be able to just really help solve problems and meet people's needs. And so yeah, March 15th, Content Confident by Tatiana Spears is coming on now, and yeah, you can find more about it at tatianaSpears.com.
Leah Wietholter:
Awesome. And we'll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes, and I better be on your email list.
Tatiana Spears:
Oh, you absolutely.
Leah Wietholter:
I've been a client-
Tatiana Spears:
Absolutely.
Leah Wietholter:
... so better be on your email list. Specifically because I own this escape room and we just need somebody to own the content of that. So I need to get somebody real confident in creating content for that escape room. Okay. So as part of this season series, all of our guests are providing some sort of tool or download for our listeners. Can you tell us about what you have provided for us to share?
Tatiana Spears:
Yes, absolutely. So I created 25 social media prompts that you can use, and download and get it for free. It talks about those five buckets I was telling you about. So it gives you already some leading questions that you can start thinking about to be able to add it into a content calendar. So those five buckets are there, it tells you just some quick and dirty ways of how to get started, and then it gives you an outline of what a suggested calendar could look like by mixing up different parts of those content buckets. And so that's the 25 social media prompts, and I am so excited just to see just your listeners using, and hopefully just get started. Just start somewhere. I mean, show up. It's okay to show up imperfectly, and it's really important so that again, you can continue to help solve problems to help people. Because the fact of the matter is what you all did was just so important and really key and important to what's being done out there.
Leah Wietholter:
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, when I saw that you were providing these 25 social media prompts, I was like, "Dang. Yes. I need this download so bad." I need all of them from all the guests. So this is so great. If our listeners would like to get in touch with you or ask you any questions, what's the best way to do so?
Tatiana Spears:
Yeah, the best way is definitely get on my email list, tatianaSpears.com, for sure. So you can definitely get all the tools and resources. But LinkedIn is where I live and breathe. I mainly help B2B marketing and help different professional service based firms. So LinkedIn is my go-to, I am on Instagram @tatispears as well, but that's definitely more of the personal, family, kiddos, that kind of thing. But LinkedIn is where you can find me.
Leah Wietholter:
Well, great. Thank you so much for joining me today, Tatiana. It was so fun talking to you.
Tatiana Spears:
Likewise, Leah. Thank you so much. This was awesome.
Leah Wietholter:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Data Sleuth Podcast. The resources discussed in today's episode are available at datasleuthpodcast.com, also available in the show notes. If you have any questions you would like answered in the Q&A episode of this season, make sure to send them to podcast@workmanforensics.com or the Workman Forensics YouTube page, or the Workman Forensics LinkedIn page. The Data Sleuth podcast is a production of Workman Forensics. Thank you for listening.